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Poster: ducats Date: Jan 29, 2007 8:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Conviction

I know it's a dead (no pun int) horse and some (ghost) have asked to leave the issue (especially moral aspect) alone already but...
I chimed in on the thread below (answering Tiger) and just wanted to get my thoughts up top to get (hopefully) responses.
Isn't it really about conviction? Thought alot about that word since we entered our first real combat of my lifetime.
If the 5 guys REALLY (I know subjective) need the money I'm ok with it - if they're not living on the street then they are going against Jer's convictions and I'm not ok with that.
Interesting - on the Letterman show (81?) when asked about the taping Jer easily says let em have it while Bobby squirms already showing signs of his true convictions on the matter.

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Jan 29, 2007 9:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Conviction

Making any attempt at limiting the availability of KNOWN CONTENT, is like trying to push toothpaste back into the tube. It's out here, it can be had, and it's free.

As for commercial potential the stuff that will bring them the dollars they seek will come from undiscovered pearls in the vault, remastered surround sound releases like those that Mickey is working on, and concert video.

I don't know about the rest of uze, but I've got enough crystal clear good quality boards in my hard drive to keep my wife ragged for a dozen blue moons. This pissing contest with LMA and Wolfgangs Vault is really much ado about nothing. Do they possess some undiscovered sublime recording of Dark Star that none of us have ever heard?

Fact is that it looks like the band has been very selective in who they pick their fights with. If it's high profile, they're coming for ya. Don't think for a minute that they're unaware of the bit torrent trading and the MP3 sites. It's just that there's absolutely nothing to gain by trying to herd all the cats back into their cages.

The only thing that they can even attempt to protect is the rapidly dwindling income stream derived from a band that failed to exist as of August 10th 1995. Or was that December 31st, 1977.



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Poster: ducats Date: Jan 29, 2007 10:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Conviction

got ya - so what could/should they have done - or what is known content? the sbd's taken from them unknowingly "were" their's b4 they got squeezed out of the tube and they are suing for compensation? so it is about past acts not future ones?

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Jan 29, 2007 11:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Conviction

My feeling has been this. If they want to keep the boards that's fine. Not only did they let people tape shows, they started their own ticket service which took half the arena away from Tickletmaster and they kept their prices low. First row cost was the same as last row. If they want to make some cash in their later years, fine with me. I just wished that they didn't blame archive.org about "jumping the gun" when the shi* hit the fan. I thought that was classless and the only think that rubbed me the wrong way.

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Poster: tigerbolt Date: Jan 29, 2007 3:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Conviction

some good views i've read,funny thing jerry never allowed a taper section for jgb shows as far as i'm aware of.i heard you had to be very low key in taping jgb shows.

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Poster: high flow Date: Jan 29, 2007 5:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Conviction

Seems to me there were always tapers in the front row of the balcony at the Warfield, but the memories are clouded...

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Poster: ducats Date: Jan 29, 2007 5:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Conviction

from what I remember it was the same deal at both

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Jan 29, 2007 5:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Conviction

That's interesting. Never thought about JGB taping.

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Jan 29, 2007 10:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Conviction

A few thoughts:

1.) Jerry Garcia sharing his thoughts on taping with the press is not remotely the same as the Grateful Dead making a business decision. While I won’t dispute Jerry’s role as spiritual and musical leader of the group, he was only one partner in the Dead as a business venture.
2.) I never got the impression in any of his comments I read on the subject that Garcia was talking about soundboards. The band might have been lax about Healy giving out patches and/or guarding the back door of the vault, but that isn’t the same as saying they were giving a big thumbs up to the practice. Also, regardless of what Jerry might have said, cables were being snipped and tapes occasionally confiscated by the crew at least into the mid 70s if not later (there was no offical taping “section” until what, 1983? 1984?).
3.) Expanding (sort of) from point #2, nothing remotely like the Archive- hundreds of low-gen soundboards instantly available to anyone with a high speed internet connection –existed when Garcia was alive. Would it have changed his views on taping? Maybe, maybe not- but there’s no way to say with any certainty, so what Garcia said in nineteen eighty-something is basically irrelevant at this point, and quoting him somewhat disingenuous.

We’re very late in the day now as far as the saga of the Grateful Dead goes. Hasn’t this band given its fans enough for free? Sure, this was an unpopular call, but does anyone honestly feel like they’re getting screwed? The amount of high quality soundboards currently in circulation absolutely dwarfs what was commonly available 20 years ago. How long can you reasonably expect to get something for nothing? How much is enough? I find some of the accusations of greed leveled at Weir and others the height of hypocrisy.

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Poster: ducats Date: Jan 29, 2007 10:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Conviction

that's what I want to get at conviction/hypocrisy - I say for the discussion aud=sbd. I believe Jer's conviction was let em have it - heck at one time I would have (if I could've afforded it) paid them to listen. If he were alive I believe he would still say let em have it. I agree with you the remaining guys have every right to at the very least see what the law does for them. I would like to hear their views though (any more articles would be apprec) - ie. did their beliefs change?.

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Jan 29, 2007 12:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Conviction

I don't know that they ever felt strongly enough about it one way or another in the earlier years to even call it a "conviction". I doubt they really spent a lot of time thinking about it. The money was good, they had a degree of artistic freedom highly uncommon for a major touring band at their level, they had the most devoted following in rock...what's it to them if there are a bunch of free copies of Cow Palace NYE '76 floating around?

"When we're done with it, they can have it" is the Garcia quote most often cited to illuminate their feelings on the issue, but somehow that's been truned into some deep pontification on the issue. Sounds more like "Sure, what the fuck do I care?" to me.

Obviously things changed with Jerry's death and the choking off of tour revenue. That's when it really got their attention. The GD part of the archive was/is titanic; almost certainly the biggest collection of Dead music in one place outside of the Vault itself. No way were they not going to weigh in sooner or later.



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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Jan 29, 2007 8:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Conviction

http://www.eastbayexpress.com/Issues/2007-01-10/music/pressplay.html

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Poster: ducats Date: Jan 29, 2007 8:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Conviction

great article - thx - got any more? - I know it's old but.... What's the pt - the boys don't argue they said ok to taping, correct? so they only have a problem with the sndbds? r they trying to make the pt that they knew the bds would be worth $$ someday regardless of the auds? I think not. I disagree if the article thinks the guys (Doors,etc.) that did not ok the taping don't have a right to their stuff - the boys should come clean and say they changed (u r allowed) their beliefs (and why would be nice) or that it was Jer's belief and they never agreed with it.
From a strictly economical standpoint one could probably make the case that open taping made them money in the long run?

How bout obliging me with some comments - I'm going to do a few calculations and come back - thx.

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Poster: ducats Date: Jan 29, 2007 9:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Conviction

2,500 shows x .50c each x 250k people %2 (the guy who bought the vault + the dead) %5 (4 boys+Hunter) = 31m each.

1m people obviously = 120m per guy.

works for me

how many people would download the shows for .50c a pop?

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Poster: MnJohn Date: Jan 29, 2007 9:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Conviction

How about this? A 12.99 a month subscription service. We could have access to everything for a small price. Load it on the player and go.

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Poster: HiRoller Date: Jan 29, 2007 10:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Conviction

I think the only real problem with this would be that you would have people downloading every single show they could during that month, so they wouldn't be repeat customers for long.

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Poster: MnJohn Date: Jan 29, 2007 11:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Conviction

Rhapsody solved this by only allowing certain players to play the downloads. You do not have burning rights and can purchase them. Maybe they could sell burning right for about 7 dollars a show.

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Poster: MnJohn Date: Jan 29, 2007 9:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Conviction

How about this? A 12.99 a month subscription service. We could have access to everything for a small price. Load it on the player and go.

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Poster: saintjames Date: Jan 29, 2007 9:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Conviction

I don't think they have a problem with auds as can be seen here. It was just the board stuff. I believe Jerry was always referring to the people (tapers) out there with the mics when he said when we are done with it.. they can have it.

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